Volume 48
The Lord's Coming (10)
J. Taylor
Page: 477
Isaiah 6:1 - 7; Isaiah 8:13 - 20, Isaiah 9:6,7; Psalm 2:1 - 12
J.T. The suggestion has been made to look at the Old Testament in proceeding with our subject at this reading and the following one. The scriptures read have been selected because they furnish the moral side of our subject -- how a believer comes into the light and understanding of the prophetic ministry. Isaiah had written five chapters, and no doubt had carried on a partly oral ministry, before he tells us, in chapter 6, how he came into the light, seeing the Lord on the throne -- "sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple", verse 1. He saw the seraphim standing above Him, celebrating His holiness; that is, the angelic ministers were attending; and Isaiah was converted; convicted of sin; not only realising that he was a sinner, but that the people were, too. So that the chapter furnishes us with the moral side, which is most essential, if we are to enter into the actual prophetic ministry. It is not a mere academic matter; it is moral. God would speak to us in unfolding things to come, unfolding the truth of the Lord's return, as in the prophets; that is, the Lord's return in relation to the Jews, His earthly people, and the nations. I thought the Psalms should be brought into the subject on the same line, that is, from the experimental viewpoint. The Psalms are experimental and run concurrently with the prophetic ministry. So the Old Testament is subdivided into the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms. The Lord would give us an impression such as Isaiah had of seeing the Lord, in view of His coming glory, high and lifted up, sitting upon a throne and His train filling the temple. The relation of the
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temple is important -- the whole millennial order of things will be introduced on these lines.
A.R. Does chapter 6 lay the foundation in Isaiah's soul for his prophecy about the Lord's coming? He really goes right on to the end of the book in referring to the Lord's coming, does he not?
J.T. That is how the matter stands. John, in chapter 12 of his gospel, alludes to this and says, "These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him", John 12:41.
C.A.M. Would it be right to say that that is why the Lord is stressing prophetic ministry and the temple today?
J.T. I think so; the place the temple has in Revelation would help us in relation to the prophetic ministry. John, as we have previously noticed, eats the little book, and it is sweet in his mouth but bitter in his stomach. And he is told he must prophesy again; that is, as appropriating the thing -- assimilating the moral effect -- we are qualified to continue the prophetic ministry, having a sense of the holiness of the position as suggested here. It is a magnificent display. It is the Lord Jesus, really, as He will appear in the kingdom and in the temple presently. His train will fill the temple.
C.H.H. Does Malachi take up the moral side? He says, "the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts. But who shall endure the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth?" Malachi 3:1,2.
J.T. That is the same thought. We have in mind to take up the post-captivity prophets who prophesied in relation to a remnant, at the next reading, and, of course, Malachi is one of them; so that the line will run into it. The book of Isaiah is the first and greatest of the pre-captivity prophets, who stand in relation to the
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whole people as still owned of God, and hence the increased responsibility. And so we have the allusion to Uzziah, "In the year of the death of king Uzziah", verse 1. He reigned fifty-two years, having become a leper during his reign; pointing no doubt to what largely marked kingship in responsible Israel. Some six kings reigned in the northern kingdom of Israel while Uzziah reigned in Judah, and they were all bad -- three of them were murderers, showing the terrible conditions that marked responsible royalty; and as over against all that, we have the true King here, "the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple". The seraphic ministers were celebrating His holiness as they would be impressed with it in regard to the coming of the Lord and how He would appear. What manner of people ought we to be in view of all this!
C.A.M. In connection with the coming of the Lord, there will be the side of the afflicting of their souls on the part of the Jews, but then will there not be the appearing apart from the question of sin?
J.T. You refer to Hebrews 9:28, which reads, "thus the Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear to those that look for him the second time without sin for salvation",. That is, He has settled the matter of sin vicariously. He does not come again to do that, but He will come with the moral side of the truth, enforcing it on the consciences of the people, for He will find the Jews having returned to the land in a very low state, and will have to deal with them, which He will do. There will be ministers raised up, according to Matthew, to go over the cities of Israel, so that conviction will be brought to them. I think we see that here; first, Isaiah is convicted as a man of unclean lips and dwelling in the midst of a people of unclean lips That is the first thing -- the general state and conviction as to it.
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C.A.M. So that they will be brought into accord with His death, morally, and be ready for that glorious matter of seeing Him, apart from the question of sin.
J.T. The thought of atonement is in our chapter also, because the altar is there, and the seraph takes the coal with the tongs and touches Isaiah's lips That is the idea of suffering being brought home to them, for it is a glowing coal -- and the seraph uses the tongs. But there is no mitigation of its touch as it reaches the lips of the sinner. He has to feel the keenness of the judgment of God as applied to him. Believers are generally weak in regard to this matter. People say they got blessing, their sins forgiven, and so on, without any sense of the keenness of the judgment -- what God's judgment of sin is, whereas it touches the lips of the prophet as a glowing coal.
C.N. Do you suggest that the same effect which is produced on Isaiah by this appearing will be wrought out in the remnant to come?
J.T. That is what is in mind; so that Isaiah confesses his own sin and uncleanness as well as that of the people. He dwelt among a people of unclean lips What has he to face? If they do not judge themselves as he is doing, they will persecute him.
A.R. What is implied in the thought of the lips?
J.T. I think they are the vehicle of spoken sin. The Lord says, "Who do men say that I the Son of man am?" Matthew 16:13. "With their tongues they have used deceit; asps' poison is under their lips: whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness", Romans 3:13,14. Whereas on the other hand, "the priest's lips should keep knowledge", (Malachi 2:7). We all know what the tongue and the lips are as the vocal powers of man; Satan has hold of them; what evil converse goes on! Here there is a full testimony to holiness. It says, "And one called to the other and said. Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts", verse 3. We have the Lord
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announced as holy, in the gospels and in Revelation too; and here we have thrice holy, which I should think would be the seraphic estimate of the position; the complete estimate. It is not judicial, which would be cherubic, but seraphic; it indicates the deep understanding they have of the Deity. It is more the subjective side in the ministry; the feeling they have of holiness in the Person. The gift of the Holy Spirit is to enable us to correspond in our service.
A.R. In 2 Thessalonians the man of sin will sit in the temple and say he is God. The Lord is here seen in it, His train filling the temple; but with the man of sin there will be no seraphic attendants.
J.T. The very opposite; he is the man of sin , and yet he is in the temple. I apprehend there will be a temple built by the unrepentant Jews. They will set up a place of worship, and possibly that is the one he will enter into and in which he will sit down. Of course, here it is the temple as owned of God and His train fills it, so that there is no opposition.
A.C. Is there significance in the fact that the prophet calls attention to the time of the death of Uzziah?
J.T. We have just remarked that king Uzziah had reigned fifty-two years. He was a leper part of the time and died a leper. So that he would represent the failure of Israel's royalty in responsibility; how much failure there was attached to it. Contemporary with him, were about six kings in the northern kingdom, and they were all bad men. Four of them were murderers and usurpers, and yet they were responsible kings in Israel. God would call attention to the responsible royalty in Israel. There were, of course, some good kings in Judah, but the whole line in Israel, from Jeroboam, we might say, was bad. Uzziah was a king of the line of David and a good king, but he became inflated in the course of his ministry. His heart was lifted up, and he would take on priestly service in the temple, whereas,
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he was only a king, and he died a leper. It seems significant that Isaiah should call attention to the fact that it was when Uzziah died that he saw the Lord. What a difference there would be! What a contrast! This is what is to enter into the consciences of the remnant -- and ourselves, of course -- so that they will be ready for the millennial reign of Christ. It is going to be a glorious reign, but holiness will mark it. He will be King and Priest; He will have access to the temple. Uzziah, a self-willed man, attempted to enter into the sanctuary where he had no right to enter. He was not a priest; he was only a king, and he became a leper. You can see the great contrast if you compare not only the royal lines of Israel and Judah, but the four monarchies since Nebuchadnezzar: and while they have ruled and have been owned of God, we are to become acquainted with the state of things in men. I mean, we are to observe it and compare it with this glorious appearing of Christ, the real King, and these glorious ministers saying, "Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" That is the thing that is to enter into the constitution of the remnant in the coming day. It is one of the most important things in our subject, because it is the moral side. It lets us into the matter according to God.
C.H.H. Is there a similar allusion in Luke 3 as to the persons who were reigning and serving generally in the empire, and then the holy atmosphere seen in the angels in relation to the birth of Christ?
J.T. The latter is very beautiful; it is the same sort of thing; the angel appearing to the shepherds and the multitude of the heavenly host.
W.B-w. The seraphim say that the whole earth is filled with His glory. Does that mean it goes out from the temple to the whole earth?
J.T. In the future, we see that there will be a strong link between the temple and the throne. According to
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Zechariah, He will sit as a Priest on His throne. Isaiah 6 is future and gives us a wonderful connection between royalty and priesthood in the temple and the service that goes on there, -- thoroughly intelligent and sympathetic service, recognising the holiness of the Person that sits on the throne. Christ is both King and Priest. We see in the Psalms that these features run parallel. In Psalm 2 the Son is on the throne. "And I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness", verse 6. God declared the decree -- the Son is the King. But then in Psalm 110:4 the Son is the Priest, "Thou art priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek". So He is Priest and King, and the remnant will understand this. It will be an education to them.
A.P.T. Inflation seems to have been current amongst the people of God right down the ages.
J.T. Well, holiness is over against the inflation that marked Uzziah. In the year that he died, this vision was seen by the prophet; and it would remind us that to be preserved from inflation we must recognise holiness and be prepared, through repentance, for the experience of the glowing coal touching the lips.
Now, in chapter 8 we see the Lord in His first coming. If we had time, we could dwell on Immanuel as in chapter 7, but as introduced in manhood here. He is seen in chapter 8 as with the remnant, as He was in the gospels and the Acts. So we have, "Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he will be for a sanctuary; and for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel", verses 13,14. That is what happened. They rejected Christ, the stumbling-stone; but He is seen amongst His disciples, and Jehovah is hiding His face from Israel, but the Messiah waits for Him. He says, "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples", verse 16. That is the position in Luke 24:50 - 53. It is a Jewish
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position and will reappear as the Lord begins to operate amongst them again. So we have, too, "Behold, I and the children that Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel, from Jehovah of hosts, who dwelleth in mount Zion", verse 18. The chapter is prophetic as looking forward to the reappearing of Christ in testimony amongst His own; they are viewed as they were in the gospels and the beginning of Acts as His disciples, and the testimony bound up with them, and the Spirit of Christ waiting for this glorious coming. His appearing again.
A.R. This chapter says that He will be the Rock of offence to both houses of Israel, and Jehovah will hide His face from the house of Jacob. Would both houses of Israel be what is public, really in apostasy, while "the children that Jehovah hath given me", will be the remnant?
J.T. Yes; the remnant as resumed in the coming day. It would be included in thee assembly, as we see in Acts but that is not the teaching here. Romans 11 shows the remnant of Israel merged in the assembly. Paul says that he was one of the remnant, and it was to him that the mystery was revealed; so the remnant is thoroughly absorbed in the assembly, according to him; but that is not touched on here. Here it is the continuance of the Jewish position as the Lord begins to work with Israel in the future. It is the same remnant. It is looking unto Jehovah, who dwells in mount Zion.
C.A.M. Would you say that the binding up of the testimony and the sealing of the law was because of the way Israel treated Stephen? And was the appearing of the Lord to Paul an opening up of church history that we come into?
J.T. Quite so; Paul was really typical of the remnant, taken up before the time. He got the revelation of the mystery, so that the Jewish remnant was entirely absorbed in the assembly, from that point of view. But
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this passage contemplates it continuing from the Jewish side as still having the testimony; and the Lord will join them, and it is in view of Jehovah's dwelling in mount Zion, not the heavenly side of the position; and of course Revelation 14 shows that there are one hundred and forty-four thousand with the Lamb. That the mystery should be made known to Paul as one who represents the remnant is very remarkable. He was born out of due time -- before the time -- in view of the Jewish remnant in the future. God takes him up for the heavenly side so that the Jewish remnant is entirely absorbed in the mystery.
C.A.M. Do you look at the binding up of the testimony as a national thing?
J.T. It has Israel in view, but it was among Christ's disciples. God hides His face from the house of Jacob. That is all Israel, and Messiah is waiting for Him. It is seen at the end of Luke; the beginning of the Acts looks toward the assembly, it is the same company, but the assembly is in mind. God is continuing on with them as part of the Jewish remnant.
A.P.T. Does Acts 1 -- the disciples inquiring about the kingdom -- refer to this prophecy?
J.T. Quite so; they ask, "Lord, is it at this time that thou restorest the kingdom to Israel?" He says, "It is not yours to know times or seasons, which the Father has placed in his own authority", Acts 1:6,7. They are to receive the Spirit, and the time of restoration of the kingdom is left open, so the assembly is in mind in the Lord's words.
A.P.T. Has the fulfilment of what we are considering now been postponed for the moment? Has it been held over in view of the coming in of the Holy Spirit?
J.T. I think so; it was put in abeyance upon the coming in of the Holy Spirit, involving the assembly; only in patience God waited, and Peter spoke on Jewish lines in his earlier addresses. The death of
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Stephen was the finish of that. The taking up of Paul has the Jewish remnant in mind. He says of himself that he is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, yet the fact that he is taken up and the mystery revealed to him, shows how thoroughly the Jewish remnant is absorbed in the assembly; but Christ's disciples in their then character are to reappear again, as we learn in the early chapters of Matthew, "Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come", Matthew 10:23. The mystery of the assembly is thus a parenthesis, as we have often said; but the Jewish remnant was wholly absorbed in it.
J.T.Jr. Would the blinding of Elymas refer to the nation as such, judicially made blind?
J.T. That is right. The ministry of Paul and Barnabas brings to light the terrible state that Israel had fallen into. Paul says, "Son of the devil, enemy of all righteousness", Acts 13:10.
W.B-w. Paul does not close the door against the Jews until the last chapter of the Acts.
J.T. That is true; a very important thing to observe, how the mercy of God continued on, but it was not so pronounced at the end as it was in the beginning.
J.T.Jr. Paul alludes to the fact that the Jews would not hear, in Acts 28. Is that not the point in bringing in this prophecy?
J.T. Quite so. The apostle brings in this very chapter we are speaking of -- Isaiah 6.
W.B-w. "And they have closed their eyes", it says in Matthew 13:15. They were blind because they closed their eyes themselves -- deliberately.
C.H.H. You were speaking of the remnant as absorbed in the assembly, and the other side which referred back to the Jewish remnant as such. Would your reference to it in this sense have a moral bearing on the assembly today?
J.T. I think so. This hiding of things and waiting for
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Him would have a bearing, and the word, "Behold, I and the children that Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel", is quoted, in part, in Hebrews 2:13. So that all that would enter into our own position, having a moral significance.
A.N.W. Would you say that every man, Jew or Gentile, in whom there is a work of God today would find his place in the assembly.
J.T. Quite so; and would take on these thoughts. He belongs to those who are signs and wonders in Israel; that is, among the people of God. It is most precious! And then, "And when they shall say unto you. Seek unto the necromancers and unto the soothsayers, who chirp and who mutter, say. Shall not a people seek unto their God?" chapter 8: 19. That is a fine word. Why should not people seek unto their God? And then, "To the law and the testimony! If they speak not according to this word, for them there is no daybreak", verse 20. Surely that has a very direct bearing at the present time; if we do not speak according to the word, we are without light.
A.B.P. Would the setting aside of Saul and the bringing in of David parallel this? Saul inquired of the witch of Endor, but David inquired of God.
J.T. Yes; Saul was seeking unto the necromancers. There is a good deal of seeking after the dead today. Terrible wickedness, in this sense, is current at the present time, but if people do not attend to the word of God and the testimony, there is no daybreak for them; it is continual darkness -- a terrible outlook. Then, in the next chapter we have the remnant waking to the great fact that a Child is born to them, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace", chapter 9:6; that is, the Person of Christ becomes enlarged among them on moral lines.
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We begin to see what a Person we have on our side.
J.T.Jr. Would the allusion, in chapter 6, to the glory filling the earth be alongside of this; that is, the extension of righteous government universally?
J.T. You can see how glorious Christ becomes in the eyes of the remnant. "Unto us", it reads. They come to see He is on their side as well as on God's side, and the same principle enters into the truth at the present time. It is one thing to see what Christ is on God's side, but what He is on ours is another thing.
A.R. Does the Child born imply what the remnant will go through in travail to bring Him forth, as it were?
J.T. We read later about Zion, "Before she travailed, she brought forth, before her pain came, she was delivered of a man-child ... . For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her sons", Isaiah 66:7,8. The Man-Child is the Lord Jesus, viewed not as the product of Israel's travail in this prophet; that view is given in Revelation 12, where Christ is seen as the Male-Child, caught up to heaven immediately, and no doubt the assembly is caught up with Him. But here it is the Person known in Israel. The titles given suggest what He is to be to them; that is, the government is to be on His shoulder and His name is to be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. These are all relative terms in view of the millennial day. This is how they know Him.
C.N. Would you say how we come into the gain of these tides in the assembly?
J.T. The principle is that we come to see that He is on our side. Hebrews 2:11,12 tells us that: "For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises". That is how we come into it. Hebrews is our book on that
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line; it is written to Hebrew Christians -- not to Jews as such -- to lead them into the heavenly calling. The Jewish remnant in the future will come to know Christ according to these verses; that He is the Ruler; the government is to be on His shoulder. He is said to be "Wonderful". How important that is! The beast will fill the world with wonder after his kind. The whole world will wonder after him. This is over against that, Christ becomes known to the remnant as "Wonderful". That will be deliverance from the beast. And secondly, "Counsellor" -- He gives counsel. He tells us what to do; and thirdly. He is "Mighty God". Who can stand against Him? He is God, as marked by power. He is to be known in the millennium in that way. Then fourthly, the "Father of Eternity". That title of Christ is very little understood. It does not refer to what He was in past eternity. It is "Father" of the age; what He is going to be in the millennium. He will be such a Father! The whole world will be under His fatherly care; that is what is meant. And then "Prince of Peace", which will follow. All these titles refer to what Christ is or is to be characteristically in the millennial day.
J.T.Jr. Would you say, in regard to Numbers 14:21, where the great rebellion took place against God, in relation to the land, and God made that remark about His glory, "But as surely as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of Jehovah!", that He had in view the understanding by His people, of these names of Himself?
J.T. Quite so; you can see how Christ fills the world with the glory of God. Luke stresses the thought of God being glorified through Christ. That is moral glory, but this will be resplendent manifested glory in this wonderful Person born to them as a Child and given to them as a Son. It is what He is amongst them; born to them and given to them. The name in this passage represents the renown of Christ. It is what He is as Man, although
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Deity shines in it. These terms are relative -- manifested glory. The government is on His shoulder. Anyone can see what a glory that is. There is a Man supporting the government, whether it be the government of Israel or the government of the universe. What is His name? Well, we might say it is what He is in exploits -- what He does. You come in contact with Him and you find He is Wonderful. The gospels give the testimony to this on moral lines, but in the millennium the whole universe will see the wonders of Christ. Everything is done through Him. And then He is the Counsellor; anyone can go to Him and get wisdom ask Him things, as Moses sat all day to judge the people.
C.N. I am glad you made that remark as to moral lines. Is it your thought that He is all this to us now, on moral lines?
J.T. That is how He appears in the gospels.
C.N. It will be literally so in the millennium?
J.T. That is right, the whole earth will see that it is in Man. Solomon, of course, is the prototype of Christ in this light. When the Queen of Sheba came to him she was amazed. She said that the half had not been told. He exceeded, by far, what she had heard. A divine Person is before us. These things work out in Him personally, as over against the beast. The whole world will wonder after the beast, but now this is a wonderful Person exceeding all other persons; that is the idea. His name is Wonderful .
A.B.P. Does the name Wonderful relate in a particular way to His coming in as Deliverer as typified in Samson?
J.T. I suppose all the types help us here. The name Wonderful is seen in relation to the birth of Samson, Judges 13:18. The first great idea in the word "name" is Shem, Genesis 5:32. It is renown. Renown, in a divine sense, develops out of that son of Noah. Christ
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is the embodiment of it all and His name is Wonderful. He has no peer.
A.N.W. Is the name of Emmanuel on another line?
J.T. That is "God with us". It enters into Matthew and gives character to that gospel. It comes in here, too -- in chapter 8 particularly. Here, it is how the remnant apprehends Him as on their side, so that in the statement, "This man was born there", Psalm 87:6, He is accredited to Israel.
C.A.M. Will it be the features of Christ characteristically that will be seen in the future? Would it be right to use the word representatively as far as Christ's personality is concerned? The Lord Himself will be in heaven, will He not? One will be representative of Him.
J.T. He will be in heaven, but that does not mean that He always stays in heaven; He will come down. We are reading about the second coming of the Lord. These titles are in a Person known objectively. Some features may be reflected in the apostles. They were wonderful, too. Their signs were wonderful, but still, this is a description of a Person known objectively; the government is on His shoulder and His name is Wonderful. He is Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. You cannot carry these thoughts fully into the subjective line at all; although there may be some little suggestion of them in the Jewish remnant, and in the apostles, particularly as we see them in the Acts.
A.R.S. Would this name Wonderful be similar to what the apostle says in Philippians-"a name ... above every name"? Philippians 2:9
J.T. Just so. I think it ought to be understood that this is a great objective presentation of Christ; it is, how He is to be known by the remnant presently. "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name
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is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace".
C.A.M. Perhaps we could say, then, that while we look at this matter objectively in Christ, there will be also a wonderful reflection of that glorious Person in the remnant of Israel in the future.
J.T. There will be indeed.
C.H.H. The name includes Mighty God. That would exclude any creature.
J.T. Quite so.
J.H.E. In a coming day the Jews will be sought after: "Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: In those days shall ten men take hold, out of all languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying. We will go with you; for we have heard that God is with you", (Zechariah 8:23).
J.T. Yes. It will be because God is with them. This Person will be known as among them.
A.P.T. Later on in this prophet we have, "And now, Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter", Isaiah 64:8. Does that refer to the millennium?
J.T. Just so. We sometimes hear the expression that a man is the father of his country. That is the idea here -- "the Father of the age". Fatherly care will be manifested in Christ in the millennial day. In the gospels, too, you get the same thought. He calls the disciples "children" and a woman he calls "daughter".
F.N.W. Does chapter 22 confirm what you are saying about the title Father in Isaiah 9:20 - 22? It says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkijah; and I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder".
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J.T. That is the same thought. Eliakim is a type of Christ. He will be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the house of Judah. Another man is displaced by Him.
W.B-w. Do you think the saints will see Christ personally in His display. Some have said we will only see Him as displayed in the assembly.
J.T. Revelation 1:7 says, "Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail because of him". Then in Zechariah 13:6 it says, "What are those wounds in thy hands?" It is hard to get over that. I think the objective side enters into these wonderful titles. They are millennial names. They will be reflected in the heavenly city, but still, scripture shows plainly that Christ personally will be seen by His earthly people-by "every eye", indeed.
A.B.P. Does Acts 1 confirm that? Verse 11 reads, "This Jesus ... shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven" Acts 1:11.
J.T. It does. "In which ye have beheld him", Acts 1:11 stresses the point.
A.P.T. What did the writer to the Hebrews mean when he said, "the habitable world which is to come, of which we speak", Hebrews 2:5? Of what were they speaking?
J.T. The world to come is the millennial world. It is not the world in the sense of ornamentation or order, but the habitable world to come. Christ is set over that. It is the great central thought of prophecy, and we are dealing with it now; how He is to shine in it, governing it, and known to be on His people's side in all that; not only on God's side, but on man's side also.
W.R. In considering these verses, which of the two events have you in mind -- the first coming, in incarnation, or the second coming, in the millennium?
J.T. We are dealing with the second coming, which is
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in mind in these two verses in chapter 9; it is what He will be in the millennial day. The Psalms corroborate all this, because they are experimental, David being the writer of the second Psalm had the mind of God about this, and he brings in the heavens in relation to the reign of Christ. The Psalm reads, "Why are the nations in tumultuous agitation, and why do the peoples meditate a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the princes plot together, against Jehovah and against his anointed: Let us break their bonds asunder, and cast away their cords from us! He that dwelleth in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall have them in derision. Then will he speak to them in his anger, and in his fierce displeasure will he terrify them: And I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness. I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me. Thou art my Son, I this day have begotten thee. Ask of me, and I will give thee nations for an inheritance, and for thy possession the ends of the earth: Thou shalt break them with a sceptre of iron, as a potter's vessel thou shalt dash them in pieces. And now, O kings, be ye wise, be admonished, ye judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way, though his anger burn but a little. Blessed are all who have their trust in him". This is David's Psalm; the first book is generally his. It is an experimental tribute to the whole position of Christ's glorious royalty as on the throne of Israel. Acts 4 attributes Psalm 2 to David.
C.A.M. Nathanael seemed to realise the truth of this Psalm when he first saw the Lord. He said, "Thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel", (John 1:49).
J.T. Does that not confirm what we are saying as to the experimental side? It is a very beautiful touch, how faith comes in to corroborate all that is presented from
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the divine side. The experimental side is seen in Nathanael, He is presented from that viewpoint. We are told what he said first under the fig-tree when Philip spoke to him, and then he comes to Jesus, who sees him coming and says, "Behold one truly an Israelite, in whom there is no guile", (John 1:47). And Nathanael says, "Thou art the Son of God, thou art the King of Israel(John 1:49)". Then the Lord completes the thought and extends the position to the whole race. He says, "Henceforth ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man", (John 1:51). That is the third title; it appears in Psalm 8. The Psalms would challenge us. Are we gathering up anything in following these things that are being said about the coming of the Lord, and all the glories that will attach to it. Are we experiencing anything in relation to all these things? That is the lesson in the Psalms.
C.H.H. Would you say that these early thoughts and experiences of Isaiah would colour all his writings?
J.T. Well, exactly; what a book we have received through him! What a beginning he had, but what a result for God! John says, "These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him", John 12:41. And in the Psalms, David is speaking about Him.
C.H.H. Isaiah says a little later, "Thine eyes shall see the King in his beauty", Isaiah 33:17.
A.B.P. Does Psalm 2 bridge the period of the assembly? Are the storm at Calvary and the coming of the Lord linked together?
J.T. I think so; it is in a Jewish setting. The assembly, must be, of course, regarded as hidden in the Old Testament.
J.T.Jr. In Acts 4, where this Psalm is quoted in prayer, we are told that the place where the saints assembled shook, and in Isaiah 6 the foundations of the
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thresholds shook. The power of God supported the going forth of the word in a marked way at the beginning.
J.T. Quite so; the place where they were assembled was shaken . That is in advance of chapter 2, when there was a rushing noise ; but the building is shaken in chapter 4. The shaking is not in an unfriendly way, but a friendly one; it is suggestive of the power that is working in us.
A.R. When you speak about the experimental side, do you mean in regard to what we are gathering up? Do you mean we should be gathering up fresh impressions of Christ from these meetings?
J.T. That is surely what they are intended for; it is not merely that we are enjoying what we hear; we are to experience what these things mean. Great pressure has come over the world and we are in it, and God would cause all these things to support us in the pressure; and form us, and make us superior to it. So that the heavens laugh. The kings plan great things -- tumultuous agitation -- but the heavens are infinitely above that, and they are with what is right and against what is evil. "He that dwelleth in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall have them in derision", verse 4. And then we have the divine decree, "I this day have begotten thee". And then the appeal to all to kiss the Son. All this is introductory to the millennial day.
W.B-w. Does Isaiah's sight of the Lord on the throne in the glory correspond with this Psalm? He begins at the top, in describing the vision. It is remarkable that he begins with the Lord in glory on the throne.
J.T. When John was called into heaven he saw a throne standing in the heaven. Revelation 4:2. It is the fixity of things up there.
W.B-w. Is it that we might be lifting our minds off the earth, and things that are going on among the peoples here?
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J.T. Quite so. How much that is needed in our souls! We are so apt to be affected by the current tumultuous agitation.
A.R. While a ministry is being given, there must be faith operating on our part to apprehend and appropriate what is spoken.
J.T. I am sure of that, "By faith we apprehend (Hebrews 11:3)". Without faith it is impossible to have any part in these things in the true sense.
A.P.T. As we move about we hear much talk in the world about current things. Do you think that as one has a living link with the Man for whom we are looking, His coming has more weight than all other events?
J.T. Quite so. That brings up the whole matter of the world to come, of which we speak . That is characteristically the theme of the saints. The Psalms present the experimental side of the truth, as if God were to say to us, I have said wonderful things in the law and the prophets, but there are people who have been listening to what I have been saying, and going through the thing experimentally. That enters into the Psalms as added to "the law of Moses and prophets" in Luke 24:44. God would ask us, Are we learning? It is not only a matter of having had a good time here, but have we learned anything and put it into experience in our daily lives?
A.P.T. Would the suggestion of "child" and "son" and "Father" in Isaiah 9 carry the thought of the experimental side?
J.T. That is right. You apprehend Him as a Child born. "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful ..."It is the increasing apprehension you have of Him; He gives you counsel; He is Mighty God and Father of Eternity. What progress you will make if you follow this line!
J.T.Jr. On the moral line, the result is peace in the
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assembly; He is Prince of Peace within. It will be peace without when He comes.
J.T. One has thought very much of the epistle to the Philippians as a great epistle for us at the present time. Isaiah 26:3 says, "Thou wilt keep in perfect peace the mind stayed on thee, for he confideth in thee". Philippians works that out. Think on certain things -- there are about eight different things mentioned -- "And the peace of God, which surpasses every understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts by Christ Jesus. For the rest, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are amiable, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue and if any praise, think on these things. What ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, these things do; and the God of peace shall be with you", Philippians 4:7 - 9. We need to be kept in peace in the midst of the storm.
C.H.H. Psalm 46:1,2 speaks about tranquillity in spite of the nations raging. "God is our refuge and strength, a help in distresses, very readily found. Therefore will we not fear though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the heart of the seas".